Lemon Issues

[blackrose]

So...on the anniversary of "the incident" of last year, and due to a noted increase in adult-rated content, the old school marm begins to worry.

I'm old. It's what I do. SO! That being said, my favorite people in the world over at the site where I download all the modifications for this forum have created the ability to password-protect topics and forums. I'm particularly interested in password-protecting topics because I believe it would allow the posters of NC-17 material to put a password on their fic posts, thus making it a bit more difficult for people to "accidentally" "stumble across" adult material on this site.

I'm taking opinions before I make my decision...

[teardropdangel]

:-? It may be a bit contradictive for me to say this as I am a legally underage lemon writer, but I think we should password protect the adult material on the site. I've got liberal parents, but not all parents are give their children the same freedom.

Having the fanfic topics member-only is also a good idea.

I'm old. It's what I do.

You're not old, Rose....just mature

[angel222]

I agree with TDA and she's right
Rose... you are NOT old

[Wingnut]

That's a tough call to make Rose any way you make it.
I am all for the underage protection angle, but restricting things too much can turn away readers and even potential writers.
If we had a seperate forum for high rated fics it'd be easy to password that forum but it's not. On another forum I frequent the admin has set things up so that only authorized users can access the adult forum on that site without needing to type in a password. Perhaps something similar could be used here.

[Ainohikari]

A differnet forum would be a very good idea. Making it set up for users only would be a good idea. And if parents are complaining, they must not let their kids see MAtrix 2 either.... If they do and not let them read this stuff, they hypocrites.....

[wicked]

Personally I'm wholly against creating a new forum. The forums you have now are just dandy. In each anime forum there are potential risque works that would make any parent that stumbled across his/her child's reading material faint. You have the forums set up so that each anime represented is just that: represented. An NC-17 forum would lump all "adult-related" material into one massive forum without series dedication. Unless of course you decided to make NC-17 sub-forums for all the series you graciously allow us to obsess over. Even then, that's more work for you and could easily take away from bandwidth (if that matters).

You've already been forced to make one forum members only due to last years incident. I don't mind because I'm always logged in so it's no hassle of me to check out the OT world. But that place seems to get more action as of late than anything else and that is disconcerting. Making a NC-17 forum where all delicious, or hopefully delicious smut is housed may make the other forums lose traffic. And there are some damn good stories that are PG-13 and below.

I'm like you in that I want to read something for the story itself rather than the smex that occurs. Although the smex isn't bad at all. Not one bit. That said, the characters and plot mean more to me than the knockin' of da boots. Although, admittedly, I was having worse fantasies than what most people have written or read when I was till in the single digits of age.

Should we make it password protected? That could be a problem in and of itself. Who manages the password(s)? Is it different for each story or is it a general "one size fits all" type of deal? Those who are not able to read the more adult related material could easily get the password from a fellow member who gives it him/her. It could easily also discourage the reading of said story if the password protection was implemented.

Is it worth it? Right now I feel that so long as the rating of fics are stated in the title, and this being enforced (i.e. you don't do it, you could get the story deleted and/or warnings), it's enough. You already have this site rated for it's content. When last year's incident happened we were told to warn prospective readers of content: profanity, slurs, sexuality, whatever. I've done that, I believe. Especially with one particular fic because it has all the aforementioned warnings (granted the sexuality is rather innocent).

It's fine for you to worry but you have much more important things in life to worry about. How is the 90-minute movie thing going? You are not responsible for another's actions or choices. You're only responsible for your own. If someone chooses to come in here, is underage, and has parents that pay attention to what s/he is doing online you cannot be held responsible. You've already stated that stories should be labled and rated with proper warnings. Your site is rated. You've already made one forum members-only. Only you have control over this domain. Do not let some witless bug come in and ruin it.

And really, at least it's het pairings the underaged are reading instead of "hawt man sex" which do need a separate forum for sites like those. But maybe I'm biased. I think it's fine as is.

~Wicked

P.S. Remember, I just finished my 9th day straight of working and I had to stay over for an hour to finish my duties and get dirty with grease buckets. I may not be completely coherent. So there.

[cagalli-chan]

I think there are several ways to go on about this:

1.) Another forum altogether for the content. A bit of a hassle but it gets the job done once all sexual content is moved into one place with restricted membership.

2.) Keep your original idea by having authors require to indicate when there is 'dubious' content: references to anything sexual, dubious content, etc. The pros of this is that the content is still easily accessible just with appropriate warning labels but that is also the problem as well. It's TOO easy to access. Unfortunately, this idea is ideal but not likely.

3.) Have lime/lemon content readable to members only with the possible addition of the above stipulation. Again, the pros/cons are like the above: the idea works fine up until a point but at least with this limitation they are already members who should know the warnings and such when reading these kind of fics.

4.) Password protect the content all together with people wanting to read the fics themselves "sign" a disclosure agreement before giving the password to the user. Basically, if the fics are password-protected people wanting access need to type out a statement saying something to the likes of "I, namehere, am 18 yrs. old as of Jan. 3, 2004. I understand by 'signing/typing' this that I am of legal age to read such material. You will not take responsibility for my actions blah blah blah..." You get the idea. ^_^

The problem with this has already been said. It can be a pain at times with passwords, especially if you use browsers other than Internet Explorer. Mozilla has at times not allowed me to access restricted content because of the cookies not acting properly. AMaybe it's just my computer. >_>

5.) Create a usergroup "Lemon" which is special to the ecual content and add people who have sufficent "creditentials" to the group allowing them access to the lime/lemon readings. Same as above but without all the password crap to deal with. Same things apply: sign a disclosure agreement and instead of giving a password someone designated as moderator head of the "Lemon" usergroup will add their username to said usergroup allowing them unlimited access to the lime/lemon content.

There are really no cons to this. You get "proof" for parents that if they accuse you of having the content readily accesible you can just pull his/her "contract" saying that his/her son/daughter said she was 18 when they filed a contract with you. Also, the content is easy to get to assuming they are already a member of the usergroup.


::shrugs:: I'm just offering my opinion on things based on what I've seen on other boards. I've admin/moderated other boards that have had hentai content (images, stories) in them and solution #4 seemed like the easiest one to work with for the board with #1 a close second. Obviously this is a different situation. =P

Whichever decision you decide I'm sure will be a good one for the board. XD

EDIT: If you need another forum but require webspace/bandwidth I can voluntary mine. I guess all you would need is a domain name for the forum and that's about it. And don't worry about my said webspace/bandwidth. Out of the 10 gig webpace and 100 gig bandwidth I have every month, I use about 3 gig webspace and 10 gig bandwidth a month so no real concerns there. ^.^

[Tomorrow]

Rose,

First of all, I just want to say thanks for all of your hard work around here. You're always trying to make sure things around this place run smoothly, and now you have this issue to revisit. I commend you for your dedication.

I think password protection is the best way to go. From what I can see, it gives you the most control over the access situation and puts you in the least liable position. Indeed, parents should monitor their children and not try to thrust the blame of their negligence on you, but, sadly, that's in an ideal world.

The downfall of the "agreements" when it comes to underage readers is just that: they're minors. They can't enter into a legally binding contract anyway, so it doesn't matter if you make them click "yes" about being of majority on a warning page or not. That's why just a general warning and us authors posting warnings/ratings on our fics doesn't seem satisfactory to me - since, as I said, we don't live in an ideal world where people take responsibility for their own mistakes. :x

I agree with all of you about the lemon forum idea. Some stories may contain lemons, but that's not the ONLY reason they're read. They're also clicked on because of the storylines and character protrayals and development. It almost seems like it could be stigmatizing to the one who accesses the forum, that he/she just wants the smut (even though that's not always true). Also, as some of you pointed out, it could reduce traffic to other forums that contain absolutely outstanding PG-13 and under stories (which would be unfair to the authors of non-adult material), and without sub-forums, things could get rather... messy. Besides, making all those new forums seems like a lot of work, and I don't think, Rose, you should feel like you have to do that because other people are negligent and incompetent.

Whatever you decide is great as far as I'm concerned; you always try to do what's best for the site. I'm just sorry that you have to deal with this.

Huggles,
~Tomorrow

P.S. Rose, you are so not old

[Andrea]

Well, I agree with Wicked on the new 'lemon' forum thing. It would be such a hazzle sorting out every single R+ story posted in this site from every anime forum, create new subdirectories for said animes, only to be reposted.

I don't like it. It would be... exhausting to you, Rose. And what if I'm working on a multi-part fic, PG-13/R but has one measly sex scene somewhere in the middle... I post my whole story in the lemon forum, or post all those chapters rated PG-13- into the FF Showcase and the ONE lemony chapter into the NC-17 forum?

Also, about the password idea. How does that work exactly? Because I can easily say I'm 18 when I'm actually 15. And yes, I know it's not 'our' [Our as in the BI community] concern because the person lied about their age, but you'd still have to deal with an angry/upset parent. [And there are quite a handful of 'lemon' writers who are underage. Some of them their parents couldn't care less or are more liberal in their teaching/growing. They wouldn't benefit of this 'password' deal].

I think we've worked quite alright with this method. Posting the rating in the fic's subject line. You could also try out Cagalli-chan's idea of the 'agreement'.

Making the fiction forums 'members only' could decrese your traffic since members register here because they've tested the fiction quality posted here. You can't tempt people to register if they can't preview the goods.

No, I think your 'sticky' idea is good. Less work and we can all follow it easily. And for those who refuse or forget, you can just assign this 'job' to responsible members, to make sure that writers follow the rules. I'm almost always online, so I volunteer.

In any case, either choice has its ups and down, and I'm sure you'll chose the one that will more protect your site from furious parents.

Sorry to be so brusque, but I'm typing with the TIPS of my fingerTIPS because I'm in a meeting- I just wanted to share my quick POV in this matter. *laughs*

Take care, Rose. How's the screenwriting coming along??

Huggles,
Andrea

[perfectpeach]

And if parents are complaining, they must not let their kids see MAtrix 2 either.... If they do and not let them read this stuff, they hypocrites.....

Too damn right!! I blushed so bad during that movie my bloody parents couldn't keep thier sides whole!!! And then my youngest bruv thought they were ill and were trying to kill eachother!!!! then I had to explain to him later that they were just playing (its the truth aint ti?)

My point is, even if you put a password thingy on, it won't stop the underaged from reading lemons. Ans like TDA said, there are a hellova lot of lemon writters who are underaged and are really good at it (TDA you rock!).

If you do feel that you should block off all IFFY material then you could do a National Insurance Number check. That way at least you get people who are over sixteen.