Song fic's

[Shooting Gundam Star]

I have found it is better to add the lyrics to song fic's after writing becuase if you're anyhting like me you skip over the lyrics anyway and go right to the meat. So it is better to add lyrics after so you don't make the story fit the song.

[melodrama]

But if you don't make the lyrics fit the story, what is the point in using the lyrics in the first place?

I've never actually written a songfic, partly because I think it's a very difficult thing to do well, and also because while all my fics have been inspired by the music I listen to, none have ever been written to suit the exact meaning the songwriter intended. Plus I find it cramps the flow of my story.

However, I have read a couple of very well written songfics. Violet FairyChild and Sara (aka Goldilocks) are two examples of writers who have written songfics in the style I think they were meant. I always thought that a songfic was meant to compliment the lyrics of the song and vice versa... take away the lyrics and the fic loses a large portion of it's meaning.

I've found many songfics where I am tempted to simply skim over or ignore the song lyrics, and unfortunatley that's usually a sign that the writer has missed the mark, so to speak.

The lyrics are supposed to set the tone and pace of the fic. That's the point of writing it AS a songfic. If you find that you can't get the two to mesh well... then perhaps it's best to write the story without the lyrics at all, and simply add in your authors notes that the song had been the inspiration for the story.

Just a few of my ideas on the subject *coughs* Anyone else?

*waves to Shooting Gundam Star* Hi!

Love Mel

[Beck]

However, I have read a couple of very well written songfics. Violet FairyChild and Sara (aka Goldilocks) are two examples of writers who have written songfics in the style I think they were meant.

*sniffles* I feel hurt, does that mean you don't like my songfics? Go ahead, be blunt, I like it when ppl are honest about my fics.


But as for the subject at hand, I'm the kind that either writes lemons or songfics and if I'm not doing one or the other, I incorporate them together.

There are some where if you are working a fic based on a song, it all depends maybe on the person if they see it fit. I was told awhile back when someone commented on Man That You Fear, that the fic went along smoothly that I really didn't need to write it to the lyrics or the song in general. It might have been true but a close friend wanted or wished someone would write a fic to that song. And let me tell you, there are some songs out there that are hard to write to.

Sometimes the lyrics do take away from the fic cause I'll admit that even though I write songfics, if I go back and read the fic, I tend to skim it over, I even do that with other ppl's songfics especially if I don't know the song. I'm sure ppl do that to mine cause of the bands that I use, no one really hears of them.

Sometimes it can determine what band you use cause tell me how many ppl would read a fic that used a Mariyln Manson song? If you got deep meaningful lyrics, it shouldn't matter who wrote the song.

The only thing that I wished I could do is upload the song when I post a fic, that way ppl can hear the song at the same time so they know what the writer was feeling at the time when they wrote the fic.

I really haven't come across a songfic that posted the lyrics at the end cause well sometimes the lyrics are telling part of the fic itself. Or sometimes it might be rare to see someone just put the full lyrics in the beginning and then write the fic.

*shrugs* But thats just me and what little 2 cents I still have in my pocket.

[blackrose]

*cough* La la la la....

Okay, I have to say it. I read them, i read them all the time, actually. I, almost 100% of the time, don't bother reading the lyrics. I skip over them because either 1) they're a repeat of what the author is telling (which is the WORST kind of songfic, btw, in my opinion. I'll get to an example later), 2) if I haven't heard the song, do NOTHING for my understanding of the fic.

Here's my advice to those contemplating writing a songfic:

DON'T.

Now, are people going to listen to me? No. Songfics are ingrained in fanfiction, for some bizarre reason, and thus we shall always be treated to reading the lyrics of songs we've never heard, or never wanted to hear, or have heard far, far too often (anyone remember the glut of Britany Spears songfics a while back? *retch*)

EXCEPTIONS to my NO-SONGFIC rule are, as Melodrama mentioned, Vi Fairychild, Sara, and I'll throw Fallen Angel in there as well. There are others. I can't remember, Beck, I'm sorry, it's been a LOOONG time since I've read a songfic of yours. Your most recent stuff has been all lemons, I think. WHEN YOU WRITE!

Stella has a songfic series that was well done. I'm not saying that there aren't GOOD songfics out there, just that the majority of them that I've seen go something like this:

Lyrics:

And so he watched her dance...
Dance upon the earth
Dance, dance

Fic:

Heero watched Relena dance at the ball. He was always confined to the shadows, watching her dance in the light.

Of course, the ball was on Earth.


-___-*

Just kill me.

The other thing that people do incorrectly with songfics, is assume everyone has heard the song, and can listen to the song REPEATEDLY while reading the fic. Now, if it's But I Can't Help Falling In Love With You by Elvis, ok. If it's Killerspy by Some-Indie-Angst-Rocker-Playing-In-Your-Local-Club - NO.

The reason this is a problem is that the author, in a songfic - with exception, surely - is CHEATING (in my opinion). They are not setting the scene and eliciting an emotional response from the audience by way of their WRITING. They're using the song as a crutch to set the mood with their audience, and, more often than not, tear at heart strings with an angsty love song.

Reading lyrics on paper does not evoke the same emotional response to the song that HEARING the song does. So, when you're reading a songfic for a song you've never heard, 9 times out of 10, you're not getting the "full effect the author intended."

Guess what? It's the author's fault for not writing it well enough that that was a problem.

People that can write songfics well, have my admiration. It is not something I am capable of. I don't particularly find this a FAULT as I have yet to see a magazine publication that prints songfics, but it is a TALENT to be able to do it the right way.

My best advice is to go read Vi Fairychild's work, if writing a songfic is something you'd like to try. For additional resources, Sara wrote an excellent lemon songfic, that if it's not in her forum, go check the Featured Author forum. Fallen Angel's is in her forum. Stella's series "Who Wants to Live Forever" is in her forum. I think Luvspook did one to Babylon (thinks) that's in her forum as well.

You may have guessed I'm not a big proponent of songfics. I *do* get inspired by songs, but I write longer fics that usually don't fit well with song lyrics separating...anything, really. The best way to get the audience to feel what you feel when you're writing is by getting it across in your story. I may be listening to a song a hundred times in order to keep ME in that particular frame of mind/mood, with that particular feeling in my heart. Then I write from that.

Sooooo, do what you will with that rather harsh-sounding 'advice'.

Love,
Rose

"Songfics are the jello shots of the fanfic world. You start out saying, 'I'll just do one'. Then the next thing you know, you're waking up on the floor, surrounded by little cups, going 'What the hell was I thinking? How did I do so many? WHY did I do so many? Oh my head...." -Stella

[Stella]

I guess it could be said that I'm a recovering songfic addict. I've been songfic free now for about a year and a half. It's ok. I can talk about it.

When I first came across songfics, I thought they were the dumbest things in the world. Why would anyone want to write a fic around a song? Of course, I think the first ones I saw WERE to "Hit Me, Baby, One More Time" or any number of Backstreet Boys or NSync songs. And I had hit a dry spell in my writing. I figured it would help me get going again. And I'd pick a different type of song and give it a go.

A DOZEN songfics later...

They did get me going again as a writer. So much that I was able to leave them behind, because despite the nice things that others have said about the ones I've written, I admit that I was leaning on the song. As I became a more serious writer, I was inclined to agree with Rose. She and I have had the discussion on many occassions, and I feel like I can say it without malice since I HAVE written several songfics. More often than not the song is a crutch. If you're writing a fic to tell a story, do it without the song IN the fic. If you're writing to add a story to a song and bring the meaning of the song across, use the song if you really want to, but make sure the story is a STORY and not a restatement of what's going on in the lyrics with the characters' names thrown in there.

And this is not to say I think less of people who do continue to write songfics. It's not easy. As Rose pointed out, there are some who do it very well. I think the definition of a well-written songfic is this:

If you take the song away, the story would still be able to stand on its own.

AND

The lyrics within the fic do not take attention away from the story, but help move it along.

When writing a songfic, you're walking a fine line. Because what you're writing is either a story or merely commentary on the song.

I'm not trying to sound haughty or discouraging, I would never want to discourage someone from writing something that they really wanted to write. Just please keep in mind some of the things I've said because it IS possible to write GOOD songfics. Those are just a few things to keep in mind while you're at it - things that actually make it a FIC as opposed to not.

Good luck!

Love,
Stella

[VioletFairychild]

Ah, songfics. My weapon of choice. Hell, I'm not even a *recovering* songfic addict yet. I'm still just an addict.

I will admit, the songs do act as a crutch...in my case, they help me maintain my focus. I always have to have the song lyrics in front of me as I'm writing-since I can't make story notes to save my life, they work to remind me of where I'm going with the story and to stick to the basic plot. Otherwise, god only knows where I'd end up going with the story. Probably not anywhere close to where I wanted it to go. It's my leash to tame the unruly beast, since I can't get it to sit and heel as well as some.

Still, there are some things you can learn from writing songfics, the same way one can learn about writing original fiction from writing fanfiction. I've learned how to "pace" stories using lyrics, so that the build-up isn't too long winded and the climax doesn't feel rushed and confusing. Since not everyone may have heard a song, I take it as a challenge to try and write the story so that even if the reader hasn't heard the song, they can get a general idea of it's mood and tempo-which has helped immensly with learning how to "set a mood". Lyrics challenge you to be more creative with your words, so you don't end up repeating what was just said.

I know I've broken some "rules" here..."Relena Begins" has a lot of the song worked entirely into the dialogue, but I excuse this just because a lot of the song is dialogue, so it'd make even less sense for me to write out the lyric and then write out the exact same thing. And I don't know about "What I Really Meant"-the story would make sense without the lyrics, but it would be...less than.

I personally would like to try writing original fiction in the same format as a songfic, using poetry I've written. It'd be an interesting experiment.

Random pointers before I have to leave for work:
-If you feel like you have to do a lot of explaining so part of the lyrics makes sense, don't.

-You don't have to excuse the lyrics being there. Don't make the characters just "happen" to be listening to 20th century music on the radio. Goes with the whole "song is seperate from story" thing.

-In humor, you can get away with a lot more. i.e "The Baker", by Lauren-never heard the song, but almost peed my pants reading about Heero sing it.

-This is just a personal pet peeve of mine; know what the song is talking about before you write a story to go with it. It's like when "I Will Always Love You" came out and everyone wanted to play it at their wedding, without bothering to notice it was a song about a breakup. I realize that analyzing songs is very objective, and people will interpret it to mean what they want...ask a few opinions to see what the differences are. You can fudge details as long as you're not completely misinterpreting the main point of the song.

Okay, I'm going to be late for work now...but had to blather a bit, since apparently I don't suck at this songfic thing. Hopefully, stuff made sense. ^^

Vi

[Beck]

I can't remember, Beck, I'm sorry, it's been a LOOONG time since I've read a songfic of yours. Your most recent stuff has been all lemons, I think. WHEN YOU WRITE!

*scrapes Beck off the bottom of shoe* Weeeeeeeeeeell there is always my section where I uploaded all my fics :razz: :razz: :razz: . Big Man was a songfic, Do it in the road was a songfic, and Cats in the Cradle got alot of reviews elsewhere. CC was probably the easiest songfic I ever wrote, took me roughly two days to write. And guess what....... thats right, the muse struck me with another sappy ass songfic the other night that I have started. *kicks own ass :evil: * Got the other lemon fic done and waiting for it to come back but I'll wait to post it. But when you feel lesser than less, it just doesn't motivate oneself to really feel excited about posting.

But another thing that ppl tend to overlook aside from songfics are poems. I think it all depends on how well ppl can write them, I know when I did mine, that wasn't the easiet thing to do. Those that can write it from the heart are the ones that can make it flow the best.

[Beck]

I couldn't have agreed more with the majority that you said Vi. Most of what you said is how I am too when writing them, I just don't feel like quoting everything you said.

[Melville's Best Friend]

What I'm going to say contradicts so many people, but someone (mel ^_~) asked for other views, and here I am.

As a music major and (hopefully) minor, I can do little without music. Now, this in its own is not an adequate reason, so no one quote me on that. (that's a pety human emotion of mine )

But what I can say as an AVID FAN of anything musical (considering Brittney, Christina, and the...amjority of Pop songs AREN'T music to me) the mood and tone of ANYTHING is set in music.

As a writter, leaning on a song is improper, but at the same time, the fics that are being written ARE by amateurs, and should be considered as such... I mean, I can't write a good fic with or without a song, but when a song speaks to me, I want to give credit where credit is due.

Now, an argument for that is: Authors note: I was listening to a song....

Yadda yadda yadda.

In defence of music, what would a movie be without it?

What good are the words we create that play scenes in our head without music?

Does this make sense? I'm basing my arguement on this. ^__^


VI: I agree about the (almost) analytical reading of songs (Which are, indeed poetry...most, anyway...I personally don't understand "Oops, I Did it Again, or something along those lines...But, Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy was always a favorite of mine, and couldn't be considered a poem...^__^) because missing the total point of what you're writing is...a really bad sign...^__^

Rose: I respectfully disagree with not making songfics, but DO agree with the redundancy of the lyrics meshing with our writing...I agree with both you and mel on the fact that if you're a TRUE writer, lyrics, poems, songs...aren't needed. But, no offence, look who's talking. You ALL are WONDERUL and AMAZING writers. VI, Beck, mel, Rose...You're all beyond par.

That's not flattery, that's truth. Looking at a good author KNOWING how to do something correctly (not that I'm dicing song fics, I WRITE them ^__^) and looking at it from a "child's" eyes are two completely different things.

Though, I have to add that I wrote a song myself, and put it in one of my fics for the hell of it. THAT was a bad move. (So I agree with the "no one's ever heard it" statement)

I respectfuly aggree, and disagree, and hope in doing so, I've offended no one. Just wanted to state my opinion: which they all were. ^__^ Thanks, guys.

[blackrose]

Now, are people going to listen to me? No. Songfics are ingrained in fanfiction

In defence of music, what would a movie be without it?

What good are the words we create that play scenes in our head without music?

Reading lyrics on paper does not evoke the same emotional response to the song that HEARING the song does.

I *do* get inspired by songs. I may be listening to a song a hundred times in order to keep ME in that particular frame of mind/mood, with that particular feeling in my heart. Then I write from that.

As a writter, leaning on a song is improper, but at the same time, the fics that are being written ARE by amateurs, and should be considered as such...

I consider them as such, but that doesn't mean we should all just give ourselves the excuse "Well, I'm an amateur." Okay, I was an amateur at playing the trumpet, was that an excuse for missing a note? Was that an excuse for not practicing my piece so that I could get better? Was that an excuse for not trying my best when at a performance?

Do you use that excuse?

If all you ever want to be is an amateur, fine, but what keeps you writing if all you ever want to be is an amateur? Why finish that story when it gets hard (cuz they all get hard somewhere along the way)? Why write another chapter or another fic when the last one's done? We expect people not to be amateurs about their writing all the time when we ask them to finish what they start. Amateurs stay amateurs because they can't see something through to completion.

And believe me, I'd say probably 75% of being a professional writer is going to be having the wherewithall to FINISH what you start. It's in just about every writer's advice publication there is. ANYONE can start something. It's the victor who can finish it.

I mean, I can't write a good fic with or without a song, but when a song speaks to me, I want to give credit where credit is due.

I have songs that inspire a scene here or there, but very rarely (considering length), the entire fic. "I Hope You Dance" inspired the story "In the Arms of Another", but did one song have ANYTHING really to do with the plotline? No. It had to do with the idea that Relena loved Heero so much she was willing to let go - as long as he was happy.

And he felt the same.

Is that what the song is about? No. It's about a woman watching her children grow up. Why should I credit the song? Certainly, if it was ever to grace the pages of a publication (ha), I might say that the song inspired it, but considering the fact that no words are the same, no ideas the same, nothing relies on the song in any form or fashion, it shouldn't matter, much less be required. The prologue to Dangerous Games 2 was written while listening to Porcelain by Moby. There's like one chorus in the whole thing, the rest is all techno. Does it really make a hill of beans of difference to the reader? No. People get inspired all the time by news stories, a movie they saw that raised a particular question in their mind, a comment they hear in a grocery store, or something that happened to their close friend.

I don't think it should be that "credit is due" to the songwriter or the song. Music is meant to inspire, it's written to have an effect. And it works the reverse. You know there are songs that have been written after someone read a really touching book, or heard a moving tale.

I realize that you don't mean that the song or songwriter should get some 'share' in the story that is written, but it kinda could be taken that way.... And considering all to do with freakin copyright laws, I guess I'm just a little possessive about whom I "should" credit. The fighter plane sequence in Traitor was written to "Promises" by Def Leppard. If it was ever publishable (ha ha ha ha ha), I don't really think I should have to send part of my check to Joe Elliot, since I'M the one that slaved over 30 chapters for an entire year. That's all I'm really getting at.

Love,
Rose